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Women getting ripped apart by orcs

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Women Getting Ripped Apart By Orcs Video

Return of the King ~ Extended Edition ~ Orc Inspection HD In case anyone is still here… Honestly, this argument is way, way Anal sex with milfs. None of it actually Nipple lovers. So let's go back to the quiz: how do Prego tits kill a vampire? Criticism of a creative work is, ultimately, criticism of the decisions that people made when they Single parents chat putting it together. He never Mico dating app this. I really appreciate this feedback, thank you! Of course you have to accept that this is the case! One would be in the wrong to demand that a game set in a fantastic central Africa include Inuit characters, Phat ass solo even the Shemale sex line believable demand of white traders from southern Europe need not be met if the artist chooses not to include Sunny loves matt.

Two, fans defend it by citing in-universe reasons for why the world of the text is the way that it is. Here's the problem: fictional worlds aren't real and are eternally mutable by creators.

They are the sum of a giant pile of creative decisions made by one, two, a dozen, a hundred different individuals who took it from blank page to finished product.

The only reason anything is the way that it is is because a writer chose to make it that way. The diegetic argument aims to dismiss criticism at its cores, suggesting that there aren't any problems with the text provided controversial elements are internally consistent with the rest of the story world.

In slang terms, this can be referred to as the Thermian Argument. In the sci-fi classic Galaxy Quest , the Thermians don't understand fiction as a concept.

It doesn't exist in their language, and thus they see all texts as historical documents. While not identical, the root figure of thought is similar here.

The diegesis is given primacy over the text as a cultural product. The exact rational behind a Thermian argument may even be contradictory from one case to another.

One medieval game with dragons and magic and no one with brown skin is fine as-is because "historical accuracy. This is a deeply flawed argument because, once again, fictional worlds aren't real and are eternally mutable by creators.

None of it actually exists. The only part that does exist is the finished text and the idea that it represents.

Folksonomies: diegetic logical fallacy diegesis. Keywords: thermian argument 0. Concepts: World 0. Fantasy weapons and armor in general are so over-designed and without a thought to practical use that focusing on bikini armor is like pissing on a house fire.

Hypothetical Folding Ideas position: You know, I just played the game Lioness , and was disturbed by the patriarchal cultural values put forth by the game, like its implicit promotion of polygamy.

If anything, the main character of the game places the life of this authoritative male figure above her own. Armor is clearly available to her after her encounters with the slavers, but instead of putting on the chainmail or any of the other protective gear as is, she cuts it apart and attaches it to her bikini, forming bikini armor.

None of that is practical, and it seems only to encourage the objectifying gaze of the presumed male player. The game is a fantasy set in central Africa, and the main character comes from Lion Tribe, which models its family structure on that of a pride of lions.

All three the huntress, the oracle, and the sorceress take part in the journey to heal him, even if the huntress protagonist is the only one who physically leaves the village.

The oracle consults the spirits to protect the huntress on her journey and the sorceress stabilizes the husband and grants magical boons to the huntress for accomplishments and artifact finds.

Our protagonist never puts on armor because of the conventional wisdom of her tribe. It is said explicitly in the game that the main character, being a warrior, wears little clothing in order to reduce the chance of infection should she get cut.

In fact, the primary reason that the main character is wearing a top at all is to keep her breasts out of the way.

The reason she applies chainmail to her top after encountering the slavers from the north-east is because it is an exotic material that makes for a good trophy.

Based on the invocations being cast by the sorceress wife, the trophy gives her an increased defense because it is invoking a correlation to armor, and since the spirits honor the strength and skill it took her to get the chainmail in the first place, they have granted her supernatural protection.

So while the chainmail appears on her top, it is not in fact what is protecting her from harm. Anyone who was paying attention to the story in this case, laid out in a cutscene or had a grounding in anthropological understanding of ritual-magical reasoning could have told you this.

Were Lioness an actual game, I would sincerely like to see Dan Olsen try to dismiss the argument above on the grounds that the mostly diegetic argument put forward has any sort of holes in it.

I doubt he could. This is why Dan Olsen used a totally-pornography-but-not-because-I-say-so hypothetical in order to make his argument.

Most of the real world examples of fiction where a diegetic argument could be made are works that not only have strong fanbases with articulate defenders, but the works themselves can easily stand up to his destructive rhetoric on their own merits.

In other words: they would prove Dan Olsen wrong. In summary: Dan Olsen argues that if you are willing to defend choices in fiction he disagrees with then you are either an idiot or a pervert for letting the story be the story the artist wanted it to be.

It would be a shame for no one to acknowledge such a lengthy post, so here I am nearly a year late. He never says this. They clearly felt like they could make some stuff up for the sake of creating a fantasy setting, so with that in mind, what stops them making a non-white ethnic group for the setting?

If the creators decided that in their game Geralt must spend the entire story bottomless, players might ridicule the game for it.

Like Liked by 1 person. Oh my! I really appreciate this feedback, thank you! I stand by my original statements, but I greatly appreciate that you took the time to read my work and disagree :.

His complaint is a complaint of taste cloaked as artistic criticism. Art may be subjective, but there is a noticeable difference between matters of preference and valid critique.

I had to sit through units of this a quarter for two years, critiquing the work of other students, none of which was to my taste, and I had to divorce my personal tastes from the act of story structure analysis, consistency, use of literary devices.

As in my post you are under no obligation to accept m hypothetical, but I will endeavor to provide a valid substitute for his example. Minor characters with little plot significance are often subjected to two- or three-minute sequences that focus an almost pornographic lens on their suffering, and the enjoyment the demons take in the process.

It highlights the lengths that Griffith will go to achieve his dream, and also highlights how his relationship with his men other than Guts was as stepping stones on the path to rulership.

When denied the physical ability to speak or even stand on his own, he sells his soul and theirs to set in motion the inevitability of his earthly rulership.

A Fan: Yes it did have to happen this way, everything in the story was in fact foreshadowing this very thing. Everything was set up.

This is part of what makes Berserk, well, Berserk. A Fan: But this is the story he wanted to tell. One that explored the themes of fate and free will, and toys with our preconceived notions of light and dark.

Folding Ideas: But fiction is eternally mutable. He could always have explored those ideas a different way. A Fan: Well, he chose to explore them this way.

And so on and so forth. If one accepts that fiction is eternally mutable is an argument against a work at all opens it up to all other levels of argumentation.

There is no principle applied, no discipline that limits the parameters of the argument. I disagree entirely. People DID believe in these things, and their factual presence in the diegesis is addressed by the presence of cultural institutions like the witchers.

Moreover, on the basis of having ports, the coastline of Poland only closely connects those traders from that time to the Scandanavian countries and Europe, making Chinese or Indian traders highly unlikely.

I happen to know from my research on medieval technology that the Volga trade route was closed by the time real-world Poland was a the technological level of the people in the Witcher.

And to my knowledge I did some research on this around the time I wrote , Polish trade with the Middle East and Asia at large was done primarily through intermediate traders who were predominantly Armenian in ethnicity.

Allow me to share with you some personal experience regarding different cultures being represented in video games, and how distracting it can be:.

I bought Aurion: Legacy of the Kori-Odan , a side-scrolling beat-em-up made by an African indie team to bring some African voices to the videogame market.

I was expecting no masterpiece from the developers, but I was excited to see developers practicing what I have been preaching independent of me of course , and putting their own cultural artifacts out into the market.

I found myself disappointed. The gameplay was what I expected, but the culture was only there in a vague sense. While those things certainly WERE African, and the game was certainly MADE by people in Africa, it felt like something produced here by people who opened up a few Wikipedia pages and an online translator.

What does this have to do with non-white people in The Witcher? And yes, it was one of the reasons I ended up not finishing the game.

They did not belong. Because Dan Olsen couches his argument in the mutability of fiction, emphasizing that fiction can be changed by the creator at any time, it is clear he is putting pressure on content creators to not make things he finds distasteful, particularly when it is clear he is not the audience, and there is an audience that likes the product as is.

Dan Olsen is clearly making a moral argument, both with his choice of his hypothetical and through his choice of words as he clearly wrote a script, I must treat his word choice as deliberate.

When Raiden ran around naked in Metal Gear Solid 2 , people laughed and criticized it, sure. Dan Olsen goes out of his way to strawman all diegetic arguments through the most inarticulate arguments put forward, as though diegetic arguments simply cannot be valid.

The rejection of the diegesis on its own terms is a refusal to engage with the tale a storyteller is spinning. But they did do those things in those stories.

It was a feature of the metagame, not something that actually existed in the story. Now THAT is a red herring. Even if at the end of all of this you still disagree with me, I really do appreciate you reading and responding.

Responding to you has been an absolute joy and has helped me reacquaint myself with my critical lens, which I set aside for a while due to overstrain.

Suspension of disbelief is irrelevant to this. Diegesis is secondary to the way people actually engage with stories, which is generally on an emotional and thematic level.

Q: Why is Quiet naked all the time? The author uses the in-universe laws that they are in complete control of in order to justify a design choice that otherwise has no storytelling purpose and actually undermines the themes that drive the character.

What does it add to the narrative? It is the culmination of numerous themes and is a key turning point in the emotional journey of the series.

Berserk itself tends to keep the laws of its universe vague because it knows that the emotional and thematic journey is what is more important and should drive the plot.

The Thermian Argument has nothing to do with this. Like Liked by 2 people. Female characters near half their maximum HP suddenly find that the orcs attacking them are only hitting half as often as before.

This is because trying to knock someone out without killing them imposes disadvantage, which effectively halved their hit chance, in 5e.

Even I clued into a few of the problems in the argument. It occurs to me in hindsight that anyone who names their idea after a fictional race played for laughs in a fictional work is probably not taking this as seriously as they could be.

In your analysis you describe the process through which the creators of Pathfinder created and implemented orcs into their world; starting from a very basic question and working out the details in a very rigorous process that treats logic with the utmost priority.

The problem I see though is the fact that outside the universes of roleplaying games and obscure fantasy novels, this level of attention to and priority of logic and logistics is staggeringly uncommon.

In most fiction, fantastical elements like bikini armor, savage orc tribes, etc. Both of these works depict women whose usage of their magical powers results in them becoming progressively more unclothed.

Stepping back from our discussion of authorial power, hypotheses and realism, I want you to watch Kill La Kill or play Bayonetta and then tell me with a straight face that these elements are present in these works not because the creators wanted to have some tits flopping about but rather as natural consequences of the perfectly logical and well-established rules of magic.

While I understand that you differentiate works that are explicitly pornographic from others that are not and might be inclined to label these two works as pornographic to counter my argument here, I think that this is stretching the definition of pornography too far.

Sorry I never got around to answering you! Another person replied recently and I had to answer them. As it turned out there were a number of comments that were pending that were buried in my email notifications I rarely check my email.

I feel obliged to respond to your post, even if nearly a year has passed. This is an accurate assessment, yes.

DC itself is a love letter to his many inspirations as an artist, with loving tributes to great Renaissance paintings littered throughout level designs, level backgrounds, and NPC characters.

Couple that with her status as an Amazon from the Amazonian perspective, warrior is the proper feminine role , we see that her warrior strength is not masculine, but feminine in nature, bypassing the common criticism that physically strong females in fiction are just men with boobs.

In fact, you yourself make a similar mistake with your next two examples. In fact, Bayonetta is the game I know more about the actual production of than any other game I have ever played.

No, there is no meaningful diegetic argument to be made in defense of the stripping. The justification exists outside of the work as a broader social commentary on Japanese culture and its relationship with personal vulnerability.

While not the most sophisticated example, it exists as part of a bigger specific cultural conversation, and is rather explicit about that fact.

Its setting, as you pointed out, is not the result of a sequence of logical questions chained together into a living, breathing world.

Where things happen is completely incidental to what is happening and who is doing it. Anyone making a diegetic argument for the nudity does not understand the work itself at a fundamental level.

Bayonetta is part of a completely different conversation, and that conversation is internal to a videogame sub-genre and the career of the man who invented that sub-genre: Hideki Kamiya.

Oh, it had balls-to-the-wall action, but it was Dante turned on his head. The sexuality of Bayonetta is the opposite of the power-fantasy of Dante: rather than us satisfying ourselves through accomplishing tasks, our role is to satisfy Bayonetta, who is more clearly alienated from the straight male player.

We, the player, are rendered sex objects inadequate ones at that! Bayonetta does not take place in a realized setting.

Kill la Kill and Bayonetta, no matter how hype you might get watching or playing them and I do get hype , are comedies.

Titillating comedy in things designed as largely titillating comedy no matter the message they are trying to convey , is not an issue of diegesis.

The issue of diegesis exists in seriously considered worlds, like The Witcher, which you yourself agree is schlock on the part of Olsen.

On the contrary, I am fully aware diegesis is not a shield from critical examination. Honestly, this argument is way, way off.

The Orcs are savage because of their biology — not their culture, religion, environment, and so on. Why is this supposition even raised in the first place?

Or ghosts? Orcs could just as equally be savage humanoids who are biologically incompatible with humans, or who find humans disgusting.

So, why is that? What are you trying to show us? Or is it just that you find these things exciting, or titillating, and that the world-building itself is simply the justification you use in order to portray these kinds of things in a story?

There are many, many other things to take into account besides internal consistency — like the consistency of the narrative, or the tone, or the characters, or the themes.

The principle that limits the parameters of the argument, first and foremost, is quality. Which can be broken down into themes, character, narrative, and so on — mainly, the things I mentioned above.

The trouble with your argument is that you seem to value only one parameter — namely, the internal logic of the fictional world and nothing else.

The Thermian Argument might have some limited application in certain cases, usually on the level of minor creative decisions. And that seems more harmful to art that anything he says in his video, honestly.

Not quite. The argument he is making is that diegesis is irrelevant in criticism because fiction is eternally mutable. There is plently of good criticism regarding artistic choices regardless of diegesis.

Deathstalker begins with a woman about to be raped by a man in some savage, mystical setting. He is killed by some sort of goblin creature, who then attempts the same thing.

That same goblin creature then gets killed by another man, and then we fade out on the knowledge that that third male succeeded in taking the woman against her will.

In the context of the diegesis that is a Roger Corman sword-and-sorcery flick, the world any of those stories take place in is a dangerous, misogynistic, violent place.

Women Getting Ripped Apart By Orcs Video

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